collected and (very little) formatted by addie walti
The start of a thread is on top right below the title
0xe8 and 0xea - first ideas
cmd 0x92 deunked
0xe9 cmd
0xe1 & 0xe2 deunked
0xe5 & 0xe6 deunked
minimum track length
Track Texture? (side lines)
0xec & 0xed?
loc codes
scenery ribbons
length limit
Corrected 0xea
GP3 and timing
Track texture, scenery, other
bits
Textures vs actual track
Pit-entry-Problem
Pitlane Stuff (leave right; join left)
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.67.70:
I've been looking at the pitlane in Melbourne, and these are the first two cmds.
0xe8 is a track markings cmd (Les, you were right):
a1: Offset into sector (could have guessed)
a2: Length of line / number of repeats
if a dotted line, then this is the number of dashes. If not then length of line in
units I believe.
a3: Dotted? 0-1 = solid line, 2+ puts gaps in - I think 2 = 1 solid unit, 1 not;
3 = 1 solid unit, 2 not - haven't checked thoroughly
a4: type of line (917 = yellow line, 842 = checked bit at start/finish - interesting
results putting this instead of a yellow line in the pitlane!)
a5: Possibly location code, not checked, best guess
a6: (values 1,0) unk
a7-10 always 0 in the pit lane lines bit, possibly used for horizontal repeats (for
the s/f line)?
All the questions, I'll check them tomorrow, I'm too tired to continue de-unking
tonight
[0xae]
*** Paul - this cmd cannot yet be insterted! Had to copy/paste from CD... ***
Anyway, on removing this cmd the yellow lines went thin and crappy at the side of
the road - line the center of the yellow bit was on the edge of the road. a2=-16384
corrects this - possibly a horizontal move value? Again not checked, will do tomorrow.
I'm working my way slowly into this pit lane, de-unking on my way. More tomorrow
hopefully.
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.67.70:
location codes, line types etc will also be researched tomorrow. Unless Les knows
any more on these yet? Hope so!
The sooner I get to build a GP3 track with banking the better.
Posted by Wøødy3 from
195.44.219.198:
no dJomp all trackmarkings are done w/ jams - arg a4 is the jam texture id, e8 cmd
is texture mapping like e9, thought they were already deunked on Addie's sight?
Posted by Fat Rat from 209.53.102.125:
Hi All
Yes there all done with jips , & the way the it is on the list, I think It's
a mix between the old track markings and the old texture mapping "Lite "
cmd , ,
As in effect , the new one is more a texture mapping cmd , than a track markings
cmd ,
I haven't fully explored track markings , other than to know which one controls it
,
The " type arg" would be the one to look at closest.
As for one other point , Not too sure how well banking is supported in GP3 .
I've seen some little peeks at cars seeming above the track ( only front to back
) so far no side to side ,
One spot is the exit of 1st turn spa ,
Went deep ended up with the nose up against the wall , in replay looked like the
front wheels were in the air . I know there is banking at that spot , likely not
much .
So mega banking might end up with the same type of trouble as in GP2 , Hope not .
CU
Les
Posted by Ed from 212.159.1.2:
For a bit of mega banking, try the last corner of Interlagos, that's steeply banked
or try Matti's mad silverstone - it's not much to look at, but it's got a lot of
banking and elevation chnages in it. I can't see any probs with it.
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.198.72:
We have a motto at work: "Don't criticise, praise".
Thanks for the info Woody, I did discover that today, and I did wonder that last
night.
Look, if you're wanting help, I'd appreciate some support. I wasn't around to de-uk
GP2, I wanted to, so this time I'm helping. I only have a few hours each day to do
this, so can't find everything first time.
Anyway, as I've discovered today: 0xe8
a1 offset
a2 length/repeats
a3 units between repeats:
0/1 is a line, 2 means every two units a jip, etc
a4 jip/jam id. (thanks, I did find that myself thismorning)
a5 Position of start of repeat.
Argh, difficult to explain: see http://www.selby16.freeserve.co.uk/gp31.jpg for a
reference.
This was created with a huge track width, a5 = -128 and a6 = 1.
The dash at the left is 128 'units' to the left of the center of the road. Then,
256 units to the right, it repeats.
Really difficult to explain this!
A start line may have a5 = -128, a8 = 4 but the zebra crossings in Monaco have a5=0,
a8=8 a7=32. a8xa9 = 256. ie. covers whole of repeating area.
If | to | is 256:
|-a----|-b----|-c----|
then putting a dash at a will put one at b,c too.
But 256 'units' is a track width of about 1792 (x7).
(May need a PS on that one to explain it better!)
Having said that 0 is center of track, 128 is used in the pitlane as the left side
of the road.
a6,a7 don't know
a8 number of horizontal repeats...
a9 distance from start of first jip to start of second jip etc. So if jip width =
32, a9 = 16 will only show the second half of the second repeat.
a10 = don't know.
As for 0xae:
a1? Prob =0
a2: 16384 = right, -32767 = left, -16384 = both.
In the pit lane, this 'corrects' the lines at the side of the road (makes them totally
visable)
Another quick note, 0xea, 0xeb are some kind of scenery, removing these got rid of
yucky green/black textures that filled the screen on my track.
If you reply to this 'no dJomp...' then I probably won't be back. I can't get to
addie's site at the moment, but I did look before I posted and there was nothing
specific there.
It'd be nice to know which cmds have lots known about them when they're discovered
by posts here rather than having to check addie's all the time.
Also, if I've just repeated stuff that was known from GP2, let me know nicely.
Alternativly, if I'm being an annoying git, tell me where to stick my ideas.
Posted by Wøødy from
195.44.222.19:
0x92 = Horizon Base Texture Mapping
always in t(0)
arg 1 = always 0
arg 2 = position of horizon section (typical values 0 to 14)
arg 3 = jam texture id
The horizons split into different pieces, 2 vertically and typically 14-ish surrounding
the track horizontally. The lower jams are smaller than the upper horizons - with
this cmd you can alter the texture of the lower ones.
Its sort of a new fix for the no-mans land under the horizon, looks pretty messy
w/ them all removed.
If you'd like to check delete them all in any track, or change all of the arg 3 values
to a distinctive texture id.
I can't guess why these are treated so differently from the upper horizon w/ 0xcc,
other than its a new cmd for gp3?
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
Hi,
I don't know if you all ready know something about the 0xe9 cmd?
This are the things I find until now.
a1=Begin Offset
a2=location (4=right fence, 5=left fence, 38=right verge, 40=left verge)
a3=unk
a4=Texture ID
a5=repeats
the others are still unknown so far.
But I will try to find out some more in the next few days.
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.67.74:
I've searched a few tracks for a track jam/jip/whatever, but can find no reference
to one. In gp3jamsH/techjam/ there is some kind of track texture there 'tarmacmap.bmp'.
But on individual tracks, the lines at the side of the road are different.
Has anyone found:
(a) a reference to the bmp in the file? Or maybe it's in gp3.exe? Pain if it is,
we won't be able to change the track texture on just one track unless...
(b) with the 0xe9 cmd, there's a texture mapped to the track? Again I haven't seen
one.
I've started on a track with Aussie as a base, but I don't want yellow/white lines
at the side. I'm hoping I don't have to change the base, I like the trees round Melbourne!
If not, I'll continue to look tomorrow.
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
maybe you can add a texture with 0xe8.
with that cmd you also add texture like line textures on the road surface, so why
not other textures.
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
a2 (35=on top of the right fence)
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
Here is a list of all the things that I know so far.
a1=begin offset
a2=location
a3=length of texture
a4=texture id
a5=repeats
a6=height
a7=unknown
a8=rotation
a9=length into track sector
a1=where the texture must start
a2=the location where the texture must be placed.
It seems that the verges are now seperated in 2 parts.
1 next to the road and 1 next to the fences.
4=right fence
5=left fence
37=right side next road
38=left side next road
39=right side next fence
40=left side next fence
see http://home.wanadoo.nl/~j.verheijen/0xe9.jpg
There are some other values, but for now I can figure it out what it do.
a4= I think this need no info
a5=how many times the texture must be placed.
a6= the height of the texture, but it starts from the upper part.
a8=I know that 3 or 35 gives a 180 degree rotation, that is all I know so far.
a9=this tells where the texture must stop, if the texture is to big then you will
only see a part of the texture.
Posted by Fat Rat from 209.53.102.48:
Hi John
All
Maybe you all should CONFER ,
with those who had started this list over a week ago.
The fact that the args are mis labeled in the TE dialog box , and unreported for
nearly a week ??
10 args not nine , the last 2 are unks ,
Now I've almost mapped the ribbons from 2-40 , with some noticbale gaps, havn't found
ribbon 11 ???
It's abit harder , due to the fact it's harder to tell the ribbon's switching etc.
and a couple of extra unk args in the mapping cmds. there are a large number of hard
wired default texturing also , ( Some seem not to be altered with a 0xc8 ( 200 )
cmd , (Texture ID only )
And it's harder to get a handle on the ribbon structure , I've got one loc that has
a scenery def to it , that inverts partway around the track , is this structure or
mapping rotation .
PS John
There were\are a number of new rot values now in GP3.
like , 32897&32929, 129,131,161,163 from MP original GP3 cmd's
Plus I seem to have a nil texture at one loc on each side of the tracks ??? , I'am
not even sure if they are Loc's
it's below the subhorizon ,so not covered by the 0x92 cmd, still at the old scrubland
, so it could be handlled with a pal control cmd
Well I'am off to check mail & Qualify for hungery
CU
Les
Posted by Fat Rat from 209.53.102.48:
Hi dJomp
It would be much like GP2 ,
No scenery def needed as it is a default texture . in GP3 you maybe able to use a
0xc8 with a loc of 10 ( road ) & set a new ID , or the easiest way , replace
the texture that is in the jam , but this will change every track not just one ,
But I think GP3 is abit different in handling of the road , with regards to the new
weather systems ,
Once I move off of scenery structure & mapping , into other areas , I'll have
more concrete info & advice
CU
Les
Posted by Wøødy from
195.44.220.77:
cmd 0xe2 = fence extension on
a1 = offset into sector
a2 = wall side to affect
(21 = right, 22 = left)
cmd 0xe1 = fence extension off
a1 = offset into sector
a2 = wall side to affect
(same values)
These sister cmds allow an instant fence height change, and for 2 textures to be
mapped vertically above & below each other on one extended fence (w/ 0xe9) -
for creating billboards on top of the normal fence or just one extended ad.
It usually has an 0xe2 w/ one (or two) 0xe9 at the same offset, w/ loc code type
c = 4 or 5
Comparing the differences in multiple 0xe9's at the same offset & loc. code could
give the remaining unknown e9 arg(s)?
BTW when i was trying to find a value for both fence sides it removed the left verge,
went transparent so maybe there's more to these cmds, prob just a bad side effect
though.
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
if 0xe2 is placed in the same track sector then the values are as follows.
0xe2 a2=21
0xe9 a2=35 for the right fence
then it will place a texture above the fence.
0xe2 a2=22
0xe9 a2=36 for the left fence then it will place a texture above the fence.
values 4 or 5 in 0xe9 (a2)will place a texture on the fence.
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
0ex6=fence extension height
a1=offset into ector
a2=height
Posted by Wøødy from
195.44.223.100:
hi John,
its more detailed than that...
0xe5 = determine 0xe2-fence-type height left
1 per track, always in sector w/ first 0xe2 cmd
a1 = always 0?
a2 = left upper fence height (typical values 512, 1024)
a3 = always 0?
0xe6 = determine 0xe2-fence-type height right
1 per track, always in sector w/ first 0xe2 cmd
a1 - a3 = same as for 0xe5
Are you absolutely sure a1 is offset?!?
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
yes woody a1=offset
Y've try it and it worked.
Y've try it whit 2 adverts on the extension.
First the a1 value was 8 I saw 2 textures, when the value was 4 I saw only 1 texture.
So a1 is defently offset into sector.
Posted by Simon from 213.120.56.37:
What is the minimum length of a track in metres for GP3? Someone has sent me a go-kart
track to make
Posted by David Richards from 202.12.71.4:
The minimum in GP2 was 1.2484Km - so I presume the same for GP3.
Apparently, though it is no longer as simple as that - it depends on some new slot
dependant parameters.
Posted by addie
all
so far i found the following figures for slot-specific lower track length limits.
ranges mean the night was not long enough yesterday :) the actual limit is somewhere
in between.
if your current track in developement does not load (fall back to windows), please
consider theses figures:
1 mel 879 - 883
2 int 814 - 871
3 arg 685
4 imo 987
5 bar 885
6 mco 669
7 gil 814 - 871
8 mag 777 - 797
9 sil 1011
10 a1 779 - 814
11 hoc 1234
12 hun 733 - 753
13 spa 1395
14 mza 1129
15 nur 923
16 suz 948
its not really a length limit, but it acts like one. i’m sure there will be a way
around this soon, so no reason to become desperate now ...
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.67.77:
The lines at tbe side of the road are actually in one of the verge jams - but Australia's
aren't yellow & white, just white, but in the game it's different. Still, replacing
the melgras (?) jam with silgras changed them to white. And I don't think it's gonna
be so easy to change the track texture... (probably best not to with the weather)
But looking at the jam there must be more to a verge than just one location? I also
saw the jam with the line had 3 (yes three) 'default' positions. Didn't catch the
id's - take a look at Melbourne.
I'll do more on this bit tomorrow, after putting track texture in my pitlane. 873
is a number that springs to mind - it's not in the jam id list in the TE, but is
used in the pitlane, could be the code for the track?
I think I've just waffled there. It's likely to be wrong or already known. If not,
there you go.
Posted by Woody from 195.44.163.17:
0xec = turn on lo-fi ribbons
a1 = offset
a2 = ribbon bit value
0xed = turn off lo-fi ribbons(?)
a1 = offset
a2 = ribbon bit value
0xea & 0xec are like cmd lib says - old 0xb9 / 0xd9 except the low detail mode
now has its own off switch
when its run in auto graphics mode w/ smooth movement favouring detail (set greater
than -3), ribbons switched on/off w/ ec & ed cmds don't show, but those toggled
w/ ea & eb do show
so i thought the pairs were separate - but an 0xeb can turn off scenery turned on
by 0xec and likewise an 0xed can turn off from 0xea, so what is the diff between
eb & ed?
on the other hand at spa 0xed does turn off only 0xec, & 0xeb does turn off only
0xea i'm pretty sure
anyone have the answer?
Posted by Fat Rat from 209.53.102.58:
Hi ?? & all
Of no address , SO I'm not sure whom I'm talking to ??
So much for the experiment w\o cmd #'s , haven't a clue.
WHat's fi ? there's a Hi fi?
eb & ed are 0xeb & 0xed I presume ??
wow 10 cmd references 4 abrevated a couple old ones . .. Really confusing . and no
#'s I'am totally lost??
SO 0xea &0xec , 234&236 are ribbon switching ,, for Lo or Hi detail???
and what are the pairs??? which ones , for hi which for low , & what are some
of the most common ribbon bit values ???
IE; does one pair always switch the same sets ( pairs ) of ribbons , and the other
for the remaining ribbons ,
I'll have to triple check some earliy results , to see if any difference occurs with
different details settings .
Dazed & confused
Les
Posted by Fat Rat from 209.53.102.58:
Hi
Anyone else notice , all new GP3 cmds at the top of the list , or at least the important
ones,
Start at the end of the list & work backwards, till you find familiar GP2 ground
???
then check the old list for the equivelant , seems to be no subtitutions or insertions
, just addtions to the end of the list
The trick is finding the old cmds which can not \are being used
Just spotting patterns
CU
Les
Posted by Woody from 195.44.212.144:
hello les
it was me woody made the original post
cmd names
the hex format is used in the editors, the cmd library and in this forum; i hope
it is fair that i will use both in this post but in future only hex
as for the confusion, i will explain in more detail:
in gp2, the 0xd9 (217) cmd turned on ribbons that would not show when the game was
run w/ the detail turned down in the graphics menu.
to have ribbons showing up no matter how reduced the detail in the options, you switched
them on with 0xb9 (189) cmd instead.
in gp2 0xb0 (176) was used to turn off ribbons that were turned on by both 0xb9 and
0xd9.
in gp3, ribbons turned on w/ 0xea (234) always show in low detail mode (so its the
old 0xb9, 189).
Those turned on by 0xec (236) recognise low-detail mode and so do not display (so
its the old 0xd9, 217).
so you would maybe expect for both 0xea and 0xec to have a common off switch, like
their equivalents did in gp2 (the old 0xb0, 176).
However, both 0xeb (235) and 0xed (237) are able to turn off ribbons
Looking at MPS spa, its apparant that 0xed is paired w/ 0xec (i.e. it only turns
off ribbons started by 0xec, not any started by 0xea)
Likewise 0xea is paired w/ 0xeb (as you can guess from the cmd number order)
so if this is right, there seems to be two different pairs on/off switch systems.
what confused me is that, a 0xed cmd can successfully turn off scenery started
by a 0xea cmd, & 0xeb cmd can turn off ribbons started by 0xec
and ribbons turned on by 0xec and then turned off by 0xeb are still recognised as
low detail (i.e. an 0xec/0xed pair)
my question was, has anyone found a positive difference between cmds 0xeb and 0xed?
(i'll remove all 0xed in spa & replace by 0xeb w/ same bit values, & see
what it looks like)
or as a relative newbie, have i got the gp2 cmd functions wrong?
BTW more precisely, by low detail mode I mean w/ the sliding switch set at greater
than -2 (in auto detail mode) the ribbons turned on by 0xec do not show; those turned
on by 0xea do show no matter what detail setting
p.s. i believe the ribbon bit values work the same for all 4 cmds 0xea - 0xed
regards
Woody
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
les, all
as you were looking at the loc-codes:
have you noticed a loc-code "backside of fence" ?
i SAW screenshots of gp3 with textures mapped to the backside of some fences in monaco.
on other screenshots they are gone again. in the published version of gp3 i did not
come along backside-fence textures so far. now i wonder whether its still not possible,
or (as i hope) they just were lazy at hasbro ...
addie
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
Addie,
This has nothing to do with the loc code "backside of fence"
Because I know that for sure now.
I've notice this when I've been going into replay.
The first time I saw the back of the tyre fences.
When I hit replay again then I did'nt see the tyre fences.
So I don't think this has something to do with the loc codes of the fences.
This all was in camera view.
I've tryed it several times, 1 time you can see the tyres, the next you can't.
John
Posted by Fat Rat from 207.194.25.158:
Hi Guys
No nothing close , to back side of fencing , but the extentions sound interesting
, for ads & c fencing Etc.
More likely the screenshots or other glimpes were one of the many many drawing bugs
of Gp3 . Many more & worse than ever were in GP2 .
See the cars thru the road , ( crest of hills) see cars thru fences & scenery
,
So why not a fence , But I did see a touch or r\w tyre texture on a fence top after
I'd changed all the scenery def's ,
across from pit exit ( 1st turn exit ) at spa , assumed it was a stray ribbon or
leak from a removed fence , could of been right at a pit fence connect point . ??
Found another drawing bug at hung. 1st chicane left side at the last half , ended
up nose to the fence , when backing out the fence , Ad , verge ( gravel ) all , right
to the hor. disappeared .
what caught my eye most was the order & groupings that they switched off at .
I can repeat on my sys (Banshee ) ,
I'll take alook at scenery at Hung it's the1st track wherer i've seen enteries in
the 1st 4 & last 4 args of the scenery structure cmd in Gp3 Must have all ribbons
active in tis track I'll check the switching cmds to see if anything jumps out as
common ribbon bit values
CU
Les
Posted by Woody from 62.125.147.245:
les, all
i built from scratch a scenery tunnel using all ribbons to confirm 0xee (238) args,
its exactly as iso-hannula has in his TE, spot on
also have the loc codes type c for all ribbons, prob already done also but anyway:
| 11 |
23 |
|||||
| 12 |
22 |
|||||
| 13 |
21 |
|||||
| 14 |
20 |
|||||
| 18 | left side | |___________| |
right side |
19 |
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
***
only bugs w/ scenery editor are, banks start from track centre not fence base &
(in tracks w/ them) 0xec/d on/off not yet recognised so some
extra/missing ribbons displayed or not, otherwise v. handy
***
You mean that scenery ribbons are measured from the place where fence is? New to
me. As I have said, I have never get deep into scenery business..
Is the ribbon-arm angle measured from the center (shift) or from fence (just angle)?
About cmds 0xEC/ED: I have noticed that bits 0-6 are used in original tracks. Totally
7. I'd like to ask that what is the bitsystem here? I haven't even tried. If someone
knows how to handle these, I could add the ability to my editor.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
great job!
now i'd suggest to refer to those ribbons by exactly this loc-code values in future.
so we e.g. can refer to ribbon23, and we mean the ribbon at the outermost right side.
i guess this simplifyies communication (and writings) pretty much.
ribbon18 and ribbon19 were called banks in gp2. but as there is no more special reason
in gp3 to make a difference between banks and ribbons i'd suggest to simply forget
about the term "bank" here from now.
your ideas ?
Posted by Fat Rat from 207.194.18.84:
Hi All ( Addie )
Please don't we crossed things up so badly already .
Is 11 the backside of the outer tree ribbon , I still have 2 nil locs somewhere between
the fence & the bank ? hill ?
I haven't found any evidence of Loc 11
What about 8& 9 and 2,3 , 16,17 ,25, 26, 27, 28,
All in about the verge , banks & curb areas those i've confrimed ,
But can't find or map 11 , can't override the default texures on 12 & 21 , Which
in spa & Imola are the outter 2 ribbons , there are no values for args 1-5 in
these tracks .
So the default outter ribbon label won't work ,
But I guess that args 2,3 & 20,21 would be the outter ribbons , unless you change
the dfc setting , with no ribbon to right arg , by whatever order you put the dfc
values in will dictate ribbon placement.
As for a bug , ribbons starting at track center , that's where they have always started
, Just hidden by the track , you could put all the Gp2 ribbon inside the track edge
if you'd liked , except for hardwired verges ,
for the 234 switching cmd , any idea which detail mode set that might be ? ( hi or
Low )
CU
Les
Posted by Woody from 195.44.216.204:
hello vaino
all i mean about the drawing display is that, where the first ribbons (gp2 banks)
come out of the ground, they should grow from the base of the L&R fences where
they are rooted not the centre of the track - if i am not making sense plse look
at Paul's gp2 TE.
i'm quite sure they do that les - look at banks w/ fences turned off?
as for cmd 0xec, since it is the object ribbons (low detail), i thought it would
usefully only take certain specific bit values because it will always be used only
to turn on the outer ribbons - in low detail mode you would not want lower ribbons
to be hidden but to leave floating trees above them turned on.
so i assumed bits 8 & 9 were not used in original 0xec cmds for this reason,
but that they could be in custom tracks & that the values are same as for 0xea.
but this is just a guess
hello les
i agree it would be best to use this new loc. reference system (sorry again)
you're right that you can't overide defaults for locs 21-23 in PH TE (the 0xc8 cmd),
for that function i use iso-hannula's for now
and cmd 234 (0xea) is the high detail, always on ribbon switch, 236 (0xec) is the
one for reduced detail mode
to find loc. 11 start from scratch, i can't see through MPS confusion, build a nice
tunnel / whatevr, cmd 234/0xea w/ bit value 1023 (all on) and you'll see it
regards,
woody
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
Now I fixed those ribbon-drawing bugs.
The new version is at my site: www.geocities.com/isohannula/
Also the hi/lo resolution scenery ribbon structure is added. You may choose the wanted.
After a little exploration I think that both "resolution toggles" (0xEA,
EB, EC, ED) are used in high res one. Or maybe this hi/lo is just imagination.. maybe
all those four command are used to toggle ribbons. The good example is Spa-track.
Check and tell me your opinions.
Posted by woody from 195.44.215.51:
hi vaino
thank you very much for your additions to the TE, they are most helpful
i think i've been misunderstood on 0xec though
yes the 0xec & 0xed do toggle ribbons, that's what i've been saying all along
- nothing to do with resolution.
i don't mean detail level as in resolution or software versus hardware mode
just imagine you don't even have a 3d card. you want to max out the game speed because
you have a slow pc:
you can turn off some textures
you can reduce the frame rate
or you can turn off some ribbons
if you choose to turn off some ribbons within the game to increase its speed, you
can turn off those toggled w/ 0xec, but not those toggled w/ 0xea
this is not my imagination
that is what the cmd does
NOTHING to do w/ software or hardware mode or resolution
i will explain once more:
0xec do turn ribbons on.
0xed do turn ribbons off.
the difference between 0xea and 0xec are, when the graphics detail versus smooth
movement switch is set greater than -2 (i.e. w/ a fair amount of graphics turned
off), ribbons started by an 0xec cmd disappear, whereas ribbons started by 0xea always
show, even if you try & reduce all detail.
the 0xea & 0xec are simply the new versions of 0xb9 & 0xd9 cmds from gp2
no fancy business & no complications
The detail switch i'm talking about is this one
IT IS THE ONLY THING THAT DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN 0XEA AND 0XEC
IT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TURN OFF RIBBONS INSIDE THE GAME, WITHOUT ALTERING CMDS.
in the game:-
"main menu / options / graphics / automatic graphics detailt"
its that big slidey switch thing, labelled "more detail..........smoother movement"
it only works with "main menu / options / graphics / advanced / graphics detail
mode / manual" selected.
otherwise it is greyed out
now do this:
1) build a scenery strucure, w/ ribbons turned on by 0xec.
2) slide this switch to a value of -2 or less
3) run the track, oh look you can see your ribbons
4) return to the menu, and slide the switch to -1 or greater
5) run the track - and surprise surprise, you can't see the ribbons anymore
i'm sorry if my explainations are rubbish, i will put some example DATs on a URL
to illustrate
can someone please confirm first though?
but as Les said its a bit academic, I'd never bother using 0xec/ed in a custom track,
serves no purpose, just strip the DAT bare and use 0xea/eb
thanks,
woody
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
we already had this in gp2. there we had 0xb9 and 0xd9. in monaco some buildings
were made with ribbons, e.g. above st.devote. those ribbons were switched on with
0xd9, and so they acted like objects with medium detail level. which means if you
set your gfx to low detail objects level, some objects and also those ribbons (and
the tunnel btw) were turned off. if they would have been turned on with 0xb9, they
would be there in low detail mode also (and the cpu occ would be high). both kind
of ribbons were switched off again with one single cmd, cmd 0xb0. and here we have
the difference to gp3 where we have two different cmds to switch off the two kind
of ribbons. and if i got woody right, both cmds act exactly the same way, which means
you could turn off both kind of ribbons with both cmds !?
and we wonder why we have two “identical” cmds !
Posted by Fat Rat from 207.194.18.37:
Hi Guys
re other post ( Addie & Woody)
Well maybe Not wrong , But it seems Woody is concentrating from the bottom of the
walls out ,
Where as I’m trying to nail down the loc codes for all 25 “ ribbons “ plus the scrubland
, sub hor , hor & skies . ( the figure 25 also includes , inner ,outer curbs
types A&B ( 2,3. 16,17. 25,26,27,28. )and verges (8,9 & 37,38,39,40,) I guess
we could include the fence extensions could be called 4a & 5a , haven’t investigated
these at all , but it seemed that they are true extensions of locs 4&5 ???
Although we may not be able to alter the shapes of some of these ( scenery per say),
but they all involve mapping cmds of different types
I know that normally curbs & verges are not usually part of a tunnel , but we
still need the mapping info and understanding theses loc codes too .
Nil Ribbons , are in the original tracks , SPA , get on grid pit side , go to ext.
cams , the strip in between the outside of track fence & pitlane , A dark green
, right everybody got it .
This rings the entire track , with one corresponding nil ribbon on the left side
, also around the entire track ,
Now is it that I haven’t been able to override the texture , can’t tell if it’s inverted
or rotated , what are the loc codes for these 2 ribbons ???? I’ve gone thru all values
from 2-40 & never altered these 2 locs ???
BTW verges 8&9 are active on this track , 1st turn run offs
Now getting into things like in “vanio’s” TE you can change the textures on 12 &
21 , but not in Paul's with what should be a workable cmd , It’s interesting to me
, but should be of more interest to Paul & Vanio , why & how is this , The
handling of the 2 extra unk args of the mapping cmds?? ,
I Had been over riding most of the default -1 values in PH’s TE , ( just go down
to the property box & manually type in an appropriate value from “MP Gp3 tracks”
) , but this still did not change the texture , I’ve managed to inverted the ( default
) texture for identification purposes . With a scenery def cmd
As for the origins of the ribbons starts , they may have been displayed from the
bottom of the fences , but in game & reality they start at 0 dfc , this was how
the original scenery Bugs ( tunneling ) and curtains & sheets of scenery we used
to have to drive thru ,under ,around . Were caused( Remember ) scenery connects to
zeroed ribbons & not switched off . etc.
If you did set the 1st ribbons in certain ways , distance & height , so that
the plane would rise inside the track surface it would show how ever & where
ever you’d placed it ( it’s not a desired effect) Likely why you've never seen it
, but it is too easily possible .
Now to ribbon switching sets & Low & Hi Details,
Complete loonacy , now each track has to be edited for what the end user’s detail
level is set . Looks like a new line in the GP2 form text , This track is edited
for detail level ?? & above .
Guys a word of advice , ID the low set & forget them , use only the Hi set .
Woody mentioned a few posts ago on this subject, something to the effect “ if you
look at the gp2 tracks you’ll see the 2 sets “
I meant to respond , If you look at my 3 -4 tracks , you wont see any 2nd set , or
fix texture , track grip, bump slide & no “ Coaching “ cmds either and only one
curb type , No sense using cmds that don’t seem to do anything , effect any noticeable
changes or seem to be otherwise superfluous , only takes up total dat file size .
But the bit values are great , seem a bit different than GP2 ??? , can’t remember
were the old ones squared ???
These values for ribbon switching ( 0xea\c ) would have to correspond with the numbering
of the args used in the scenery structure cmd . ( 0xee ) , This is a bit hard to
explain . As I have suspicion that there will be no order at all in the 0xee , but
the switching bit values are hard wired to each arg set in the 0xee .
So I’ll rename & label , ( for discussion only )
** * *** ++
L5, L4, L3, L2, Ll center R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 10 ribbons 5 per side = args 2-21 10 sets
of 2
args 0203,0405,0607,0809,1011. center 1213,1415,1617,1819,2021.
Now without any changes in order , but it does look like the lt\rt split is always
args 11\12 ,
*Spa has 4 ribbons 3 left +1right , left is args 6-11 & right is 12,13.
**Hung has 6 ribbons 5 left & 1 right , left is args 2-11 and right is 12,13.
***Imola only has 3 ribbons , 2 left & 1 right , left is args 8-11and right 12,13.
These are all from TS0 on grid , likely changes once passed the pits & s\f areas
Now if you assume that one ribbon is outer left\right 11 &22 was it , and you
tried to use a switching value for args 2,3 ( ribbon 11 ) & 20,21 (ribbon 22
) it would only work on the left side 1 of the 3 tracks ( Hung ) the only of the
3 that have an outer ribbon (11) in args 2&3 . also you can see that the outer
left ribbon is different in all 3 tracks (*) and the right hand switch would be wrong
on all 3 . (++) nothing in args 20,21.
Now start changing the order of the dfc settings and it gets much worse , what may
appear as outer on either side “could “be any of the at least 5 sets , maybe all
10 depending on how strict that left/right args split 11/12 for left & right
is . If 6 on one side is possible then all 10 would be ???
If this split is a hard fast rule , then we just have to work from center out as
usual , But if it’s not , then this could be a nightmare . Until all the editors
can keep track & display & label and the dialog boxes , drop downs , check
boxes etc. for switching ( bit values ) , mapping ( loc codes ) & structure (
definite labeling & naming ) start coming into play & understood by those
who are using the editors , We’ll still have some way to go , (again sorry Vanio
for my ignorance of your app ) obviously it does display GP3 scenery struct.)
Just trying to get Paul & Vanio enough info , to assist in development of all
editors & utill’s and at the same time form some sort of general knowledge base
to actually start my 1st serious attempts & investigations of GP3 TEing ( No
offense Woody or others )
I don’t consider “ fixed tracks” as “ track” editing per say . More jam , retexturing
& some minor adjustments to an existing working track . To my thinking why start
when you “ can’t “ finish the fix completely. .
But like a few others I’m not going to RUSH and I’m not as inclined to go groping
around in complete darkness as I once was . there is a lot of ground work to cover
and we do have a fair start . Give it time ,
I’m going to compete & relearn the 98 seasons and get some setups . I’ll have
to start on wet setups soon .
I want to intimately know these new original tracks inside out , as I did in GP2
.
Remember I had & played the original 16 for a year -18 months before I even went
online , and it was another 8-12 months when I tried a cable LAN , I went looking
for online racing & found TEing & add ons , tweaking etc. 1.51-52 days (
Ponk Ando GN babble addie alfa, then a bit later MK , Snoqqy D Etc, “sorry if I omitted
any ” ) then another 2 1/2 -3 years & still didn’t quite finish ,
SO it’s a long race , have to finish to win or place ?
Have fun
Les
Posted by Fat Rat from 207.194.18.37:
Hi
Notepad works great. But it looks like it will still be scewed
** * *** ++
L5, L4, L3, L2, Ll center R1 R2 R3 R4 R5
args 0203,0405,0607,0809,1011. center 1213,1415,1617,1819,2021.
10 ribbons 5 per side = args 2-21 10 sets of 2
Now without any changes in order , but it does look like the lt\rt split is always
args 11\12 ,
*Spa has 4 ribbons 3 left +1right , left is args 6-11 & right is 12,13.
**Hung has 6 ribbons 5 left & 1 right , left is args 2-11 and right is 12,13.
***Imola only has 3 ribbons , 2 left & 1 right , left is args 8-11and right 12,13.
These are all from TS0 on grid , likely changes once passed the pits & s\f areas
Now if you assume that one ribbon is outer left\right 11 &22 was it ,
and you tried to use a switching value for args 2,3 ( ribbon 11 ) & 20,21 (ribbon
22 )
it would only work on the left side 1 of the 3 tracks ( Hung ) the only of the 3
that have an outer
ribbon (11) in args 2&3 .
also you can see that the outer left ribbon is different in all 3 tracks (*) and
the right hand switch
would be wrong on all 3 . (++) nothing in args 20,21.
Now start changing the order of the dfc settings and it gets much worse ,
what may appear as outer on either side "could "be any of the at least
5 sets ,
maybe all 10 depending on how strict that left/right args split 11/12 for left &
right is .
If 6 on one side is possible then all 10 would be ???
Posted by John Verheijen from 212.64.25.123:
The fence extensions are 35 and 36 and not 4a and 5a.
All the other could be right, didn't check that out.
John
Posted by woody from 195.44.215.51:
les
i'll keep this short so you can be bothered to read it (hint)
perhaps you could be a bit more specific in your criticism, instead of just rambling
on and hinting things sideways.
addie had to ask, do you think my conclusions are wrong?
and you said well maybe not wrong, but
this sort of indirect comment is not helpful
a) building up a knowledge base before releasing material
as for supplying vaino & paul w/ info & not hogging it for our own gain,
how many tracks have i published in my entire life? would that be a grand total of
zero?
and why do you think i bother posting on this forum, when i get no useful comments,
or just dismisssive comments where it is obvious that people have not checked first?
i could just keep the info to myself and build "the best track ever", release
it on alphaf1....
b) rushing / stabbing around in the dark?
Okay 0x92, 0xe1, 0xe2, 0xe5, 0xe6, 0xec all deunked completely, no args unturned,
and no mistakes at all.
you can only accuse me of rushing if they are incomplete or wrong, so please point
out to me which args of the above cmds i have deunked wrongly and i will be very
interested.
but i have example dats coming out of my ears, things tested thoroughly so even if
i do not interpret them 100% right they are still there for the taking
i'm sorry but i just don't understand your angle
i respect that you have been doing this a lot longer than me but that does not mean
i am thick, or wrong automatically, CHECK what i have been saying before you dismiss
it, if we could together discuss specific args & points then that would be more
helpful
later
woody
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
I just want to tell you that the new version 3.009 of IHTE is released.
The new features:
- Checkbox editing for cmds 0xEA, EB, EC, ED.
- Turned on ribbons (hi/lo) in ribboneditor (not editable yet).
- Some new commandflags
I think that my presumptions of 0xEX commands are not just correct. You can go to
look at Scenery Edit (click ribbonsystems) and notice that even ribbon is created
(nonzero X/Y), the ribbon is not on as my presumptions. Maybe the "start"
bitvalue is somewhere (not just zero)?
However, you can see everything in my editor as it is. Tell me if you have the new
idea.
Posted by Francesco from 212.171.212.228:
Does anyone know if GP3 can handla track longer than GP2 ones?
If so, it will possible buliding traks like the old and wonderful nordschleife or
the old Spa Francorschamps ?
Ciao!
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
i can confirm the figure that was brought to me by woody: 1648 units (track + pits)
which is about 8037m is the precise upper limit identical in all slots. maybe there
will be a way to get a few more, but at latest at 2047 its definitely over ...
so there never will be a nordschleife, nor old spa in gp3 (probably in no gpX ever)
Posted by woody from 62.125.134.128:
for turning on individual ribbons
ribbon loc. codes:
11,12,13,14,18 left |_____| right 19,20,21,22,23
Bit value order in Iso-Hannula TE, following above sequence left to right:
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 512, 256, 128, 64, 32
Correct bit value order:
1, 2, 4, 8, 256, 512, 16, 32, 64, 128
(i.e. Bit value 256 turns on ribbon loc. 18, bit value 128 turns on ribbon loc. 23
etc)
and so, Les was right not to scrap the concept of banks! they disrupt the expected
numerical sequence for 10 ribbons.
without banks ("ribbons" 18 & 19), we'd have 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64,
128
Note: Obviously locs 11 & 23 aren't always outer ribbons cos they may not be
turned on.
Likewise in theory 18 & 19 don't have to be inner ribbons, cos you could set
them at 0,0 and use upper/outer ribbons to spring from the ground instead (this just
wastes ribbons though)
Woody
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
Many thanks Woody,
Now there is version 3.010 which contains these _correct_ ribbon bit-locs.
If you tell me that 0xEB and 0xED are TOTALLY identical there will be version 3.011
soon.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
woody, all
nevertheless i'd suggest to stick with the term “ribbons” only. ribbons and banks,
they act all the same.
i made some screenshots. see: http://www.grandprix3.ch/TEIC/cmdlib3/0xee.jpg
its two pictures of folded ribbons at the right side of the track. i had a similar
set of ribbons on the left side. but in the screenshots you see but the right side.
in the lower image you see what happens if you set the dfc-val of the first ribbon
to the right r19 to a value smaller than the “vergewidth” (a few 100 dfc): it gets
folded like a roof over the track, but remains attached on the right side. so the
ribbons wont get shuffled along the dfc-values of them, as les suggested. i also
checked out several a1 values of 0xee: no change. this was already mentioned before
by several people.
you can see also: the first ribbons on each side are attached at the bottom of the
fences. but the dfc-value is rooted in the middle of the road (though this depends
on the widths settings. sometimes the middle of the road is not 0 dfc ! check the
discussion and images at cmd 0xb4/b5 in the cmdlib for what i mean here)
summed up: i’m glad to see, basic scenery work hasnt changed :) we have a very welcome
set of 4 additional ribbons, two at each side. no more “ribbons to the right”-value,
which lets us look at the former “banks” like they were ribbons.
btw: dfc means “distance from center”; see glossary in cmdlib for more terms.
and i’d suggest to take “dfc” as a label for the former x-val in future !
i hope its useful
addie
Posted by Andrew D from 203.109.250.95:
Hey
Does anybody know if the same problem with timing exsists in GP3 as it did in Gp2.
The one where if you put the same track in different slots, there could be upto 10
seconds difference?
CHeers
ANdrew D
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.198.71:
Hey all, been away for a little while so this feels like old news to me.
1. The white or white/yellow lines at the side of the track are in the verge jam.
2. Yes scenery is nearly the most important, many a GP2 track was left unfinished
because I never had time to do some decent scenery.
3. Pitlane problems.
As I'm not gonna be around for a couple of days, I'll post this.
Andrew D, you said you changed the pitlane side? I tried this on my oval (right to
left), I was parked on the left but the pitcrew were on the right! Weirdest bug yet.
Will find the file if anyone wants it... Also using a different pitbox side cmd (0x9-something
I think, sorry it's been a while) didn't affect the side the 'boxes were on. ie.
right pitlane, should be right boxes, used left box command, didn't change.
That might be a reloading problem in GP3, when I get some time I'll look.
I've been looking really closely at the pitlane, especially the pitlane side numbers,
wondering why two of the bits are different in different tracks but changing the
value between the track files crashes it? Anyone find a reason for this in GP2?
Also I can't get my entire pitlane to be viewed from the track, I only get the lane
- no walls. Looks really odd.
If anyone's cured or researched these problems, let me know, I've got another free
week approaching and hoping to fill it with interesting stuff!
Cheers
Posted by Andrew D from 203.109.250.95:
The pitlane thing.
Changing the pit crew to the left from the right was the same in GP2, you find the
pit crew in the object defintion tree, place a negitive symbol in front of the left-right
offset number, and rotate the object around 180 degrees.
All i did was:
1. Reverse the a1,2,3 and a4 commands around, so the left and right fences connected
properly.
2. Changed the pit side feature in the track tree menu.
3. Removed the ox89 and replaced it with the ox88 command in the pits,
4. then fixed the pit crew rotation.
The one thing that i did do to make it easy to do was remove the last chicane and
right hand sweeper and replace it with a 90 degree right hand turn, that way the
pits were just a simple branch off the track.
The pits worked fine, a little fine tuning was needed, but they functioned properly,
even the cc cars worked fine with them.
I think that Addie in his commands guide solved the pit lane view from the track,
worth looking at.
Cheers
Andrew D
Posted by Barry L from 203.23.72.4:
I've noticed that some GP3 tracks have textured grass/gravel on some corners, but
it acts exactly like tarmac, whereas others act exactly like grass/gravel. Is there
a direct correlation between what texture appears and how the game engine reacts.
Can some of these suspect corners be fixed?
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
in gp2 it was the texture ID that made the difference ...
there was one ID, 164, that acted like gravel and id 33(?) that acted like tarmac.
the rest acted like regular cross-country ...
that means you could have taken an advert texture, give it the ID 164, map it on
the verge somewhere and you had a gravel trap looking like an advert.
in gp3 there are more IDs acting like gravel trap, though i did not check out whether
its actually the ID that defines the acting or whether its something different, something
new ...
anybody ?
Posted by dcs from 62.155.249.102:
Hi,
I know, I know.....somehow I´m out of time, because I am starting to create
a gp2-track. It is going to be the real-life-track of Most in the Czech Republik,
which has not been built up to now (as far as I know). The Layout is already finished
(thanks to the great tutorials by addie and the other!!!), but I got a big problem
with my pit-entry. The check says, that the pitlane is ok. I can enter the pit-lane,
but there is always a nasty bug in my way: I need to go through the fence. It works,
but it´s terrible ugly. How can I fix this? Please help, otherwise I am about
to give up, cause it took me hours and hours without getting this any better. There
must e a way - I know - but I seem to be stupid on this subject. Many thanks in advance.
dcs
Posted by Andrew D from 203.109.250.95:
Hey
It sounds like you may just need to turn off the texture of the wall of the track
section that the pit lane exits the track from, you do that from the track dialog
box, short of that, it may be the a1 and a2 commands around the wrong way on the
track.
Hope it helps some
Andrew D
Posted by dcs from 62.155.249.94:
Thanks Andrew!
Unfortunetly I tried this before without getting a reasonable result. Is there something
special about slot 10 (hungary)?
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.198.85:
Try looking at the distance to the fence, make sure in the one sector between joining
the fences it goes from 50 to 0 (approximately, if it's close to the track) otherwise
it looks really odd.
Pitlane Stuff (leave right; join left)
Posted by dJomp from 195.92.198.85:
The old +-10 to change the pitlane side?
Changing bit value 2 changes the track side the pitlane start attaches itself to,
and the wall it goes through. It also affects the side the car drives into (not the
0x88, 0x89 - wonder what these actually do?)
Bit value 8 changes the pitlane exit fence & track side.
So, considering the last byte in the pit word:
0000 = right pits
1010 = left pits
1000 = leave on right, join on left.
Not much use in real tracks but there you go.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
i also wondered whether it could be possible to have an e.g. leave left join right
pitlane with a track crossing somewhere e.g. tunnel. i even made a few experiments
but without success. but maybe i wasnt stubborn enough ...
IMO there are some chances ...
0x88/89 seem to indicate where the parking zone begins, but i have no idea on the
difference, as they both work for both sides IIRC
end of list